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Boeing-Vertol Model 301 / XCH-62 (HLH)
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Didn't know wherelse to put this. 

Stingy.. WHY U NO MAKE TOPIC for this one?!!! XD



-- Edited by Stingray on Saturday 11th of April 2020 12:53:37 AM

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RE: Boeing-Vertol CH-62 / HLH
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Because:

http://stingraysrotorforum.activeboard.com/t26318430/boeing/

http://stingraysrotorforum.activeboard.com/t26318430/boeing/?page=2&sort=oldestFirst



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Nevermind. I want to change my policy on general topics. They are very unorganized and make searching a headache.

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You should wait until we get a split feature before changing the policy. Or this place will be in an even bigger mess. -_-



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Wow, the CH-62 would've been great in civilian service! Shame they scrapped the project when the military contract was cancelled. no



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http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/864891.pdf



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VinceJ wrote:

Wow, the CH-62 would've been great in civilian service! Shame they scrapped the project when the military contract was cancelled. no


 It was so upsetting when they had to scrap the XCH-62 exhibit at Ft. Rucker. I would've loved to see it go to a museum that could properly accommodate it, but the logistics behind transporting it without dismantling into pieces would be unrealistic. Its fate was inevitable.



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Rafale D wrote:
the logistics behind transporting it without dismantling into pieces would be unrealistic.

 wat



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Oh!! I stand corrected then!smile Then I wonder why it needed to be dismantled ? I understand that the museum had higher priorities than caring for it, but I'm sure other museums would've taken it in.



-- Edited by Rafale D on Friday 3rd of April 2020 04:41:28 PM

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The prototype wasn't really complete (it was more or less a mockup post-cancellation), so transporting it via airlift wouldn't be much of an issue. There is, however, a bigger picture here as to why it was scrapped:

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=d07b9f97-11df-4fae-be11-93e7f7b4c58f 

XCH-62 Destruction Pictures Cause A Stir

Army Museum Had To Let It Go -- And It Was Not All It Seemed

Working for Aero-News, we learn about something new every day. But every once in a while you learn about something that you just can't get your skull around, and one example is shown in this photograph from a rotorcraft fan website:

This picture tells a clean and simple story: one of the US Army's museums is destroying one of its exhibits, a priceless, unique prototype helicopter. The text usually circulated with the picture advances that story. But, as it turns out, that story is clean, simple

-- and false.

When I mentioned this picture to Editor-in-Chief Jim Campbell, Jim remembered that he'd gotten a similar photo in email recently. The picture is ricocheting around the net -- especially the Army aviation community -- from email to blog to website.

The aircraft that's losing an argument with a construction loader is the Boeing XCH-62, the prototype of the largest helicopter ever built outside of Russia. It looks a lot like a Chinook, but looks are deceptive -- it's between once-and-a-half and twice the size; you can almost park a Hook under it, as the second photo shows.

Or, "could" almost park a Hook under it. Because the only prototype of the Boeing design for the Heavy Lift Helicopter program of the early seventies, is gone now. "Destroyed by a goon in a payloader," one Ft Rucker soldier told me, fuming.

But as it happens, what appears to be an act of wanton destruction is a lot more complicated that it seems. I contacted the Army Aviation Museum, at Ft Rucker, Alabama, one of a plethora of installation and specialty museums that the Army's Center for Military History, with a lot of alarmed questions. Either my questions, or my tone, or the way this controversy has exploded across the internet brought a reply from museum Curator R. Steven Maxham with very un-helicopter-like speed.

The poor fellow has been taking a beating on the net from people who don't even know him, and what's more, don't know the machine at issue. XCH-62 Serial Number 73-22012, built by Boeing-Vertol in Philadelphia and destroyed by a goon in a payloader thirty years later, turns out to have been something less than a real helicopter.

"[I]t was never an aircraft," Steve Maxham says. "It never flew. It was essentially an incomplete concept model, the shell of an idea. It was never structurally completed. It was never mechanically completed. It was never electrically harnessed. There was only one rotor head produced, the second was not. There were only blades made for the one head. There were no drive train components. The upper structures both fore and aft were never manufactured. The interior was never completed. In no way, shape, or form did it qualify as an aircraft, historic or otherwise."

Yow! Do you get the feeling that Steve Maxham is just a little bit ticked at people who come riding in to save the CH-62, now that it's dead and gone? But certainly, there was some historical value in it... why not save what they had?

"The very scarce funding available to this museum for collection management concerns is much better suited to the preservation and conservation of any one the many technologically significant and unique aircraft that we do maintain here. These are items that were completed, were tested, and that have a tangible value to lessons learned in the development of rotor wing technology."

It turns out that the museum has the real, original prototypes of just about every historic Army aircraft. "At the end of any contract development the Army takes possession of the prototypes they paid for," Maxham explained to Aero-News. "This was the case with the OH6, the NOTAR, the YUH60, the YAH64, the 61, the 63..." The museum includes other rarities and one-offs, like the Boeing 347, a Chinook with fly-by-wire controls, retractable gear and wings (yes, wings). It has a Lockheed YAH-56A Cheyenne on display (and another in storage), another high-tech victim of the 1970s budget crunch. And Maxham promises they're not going anywhere.

"There is no, repeat no intention to divest the collection of any of the true aircraft we have, to include the 347 that you inquired about."

One important reason to preserve these prototypes is that the test pilots come to visit them -- and long after the test pilots are gone, the test pilots' descendants will. But no test pilot ever pulled pitch on the XCH-62 (although the internet reverberates with the complaints of project engineers who worked on the ill-fated program).

The XCH-62 was intended to be the next-generation Heavy Lift Helicopter, replacing the obsolete Sikorsky CH-54 Tarhe ("Skycrane", in it's S-64 civilian guise). The -62 combined concepts from other aerial cranes, like the CH-54 (for example, it had a rearward-facing pilot station, which was tested on the above mentioned Boeing 347), with technology from the proven CH-47 Chinook, with new concepts like its four-bladed rotors. But the Army had little love for one-task, special-purpose heavy lift helicopters and in the post-Vietnam budget-slashing frenzy, the unfinished CH-62 prototype was axed in 1973. True believers at Boeing Vertol's Philadelphia plant pushed the unfinished machine between a massive hangar and outdoor storage over the years as the company fought Washington to reinstate the project.

In the military expansion of the early Reagan years, the project was briefly revitalized, only to be killed again in 1985 -- this time, for good. The machine was gussied up as a mockup and delivered to the museum after that (they must have used a railroad to deliver the massive fuselage). There was no question of storing the mockup indoors, and yet it hadn't been built to last.

And the XCH-62 wasn't the only exhibit to suffer the rains and hail of Ft Rucker's LA (Lower Alabama) location. Outdoor storage, and primitive indoor storage in decrepit World War II "temporary" buildings, had left much of the museum's collection at risk. It's not that Maxham and his fellow curators are unaware of the damage being done to their collection, or how to stop it. It's that their museums belong to the Army, which in peace and in war has many priorities higher than preserving its museum collections -- and in our society, remember, the Army doesn't get to set its spending priorities. The Congress does that -- need I say more?

So the seasons came, and the XCH-62 deteriorated. "While there are some in the general aviation history community who will see this as a loss, it has in fact been at a loss for many years now, and could easily be categorized as an accident waiting to happen. The very simple matter of corrosion in the skin and frame due to unprotected exposure to 20+ years of the elements prohibited any real consideration for removal to another site," Maxham told us in a passionate email.

So the writing was on the wall for 73-22012 and its strange conglomeration of aircraft parts and plywood. It would have taken an absolute fortune to save the mockup by 2005 -- and if anybody gave Steve Maxham and his comrades in the Center for Military History's museum network an absolute fortune for the Army Aviation Museum, they had far higher priorities. The only thing left was to get a small budget to tear the gigantic mockup down, before it fell on a sixth-grade class touring the museum.

The museum still has the history of the abortive HLH program on file. "We have archived several linear feet of vertical file material that track the project up to cancellation. That material will be retained as historical documentation. That, moreso than an incomplete concept model, will be sufficient to assist in the story of heavy lift." After all, the museum has the real heavy-lift helicopters of the Army, showing how the practice evolved, from the use of utility helicopters like the CH-21 and CH-34, to the first real brawny lifting machine, the twin-radial CH-37 Mojave, through the CH-54 -- the last helicopter to bear Igor Sikorsky's own hand in the design -- to the CH-47, used today in the role.

Except where it can't, and we have to hire Russians to come with an Mi-26. Which, apart from the embarrassment of it, certainly cost less than finishing and fielding the CH-62 would have done.

And, in a victory not of a moment, but of a decade, Maxham writes that most of his at-risk unique and irreplaceable aircraft are out of the weather. "[O]ver the past 10 years we have managed to secure these examples in covered storage, where many were in the elements prior to that, and we have also managed to obtain newer and better storage facilities than the obsolete WWII vintage wooden structures that had been museum storage since the 1970's," he says.

So there you have it-- the whole complex tale of the CH-62, with all its twists and turns. The tagline of the Army Aviation Museum at Fort Rucker is "Preserving the past... for the future." Sometimes doing that means that the curators have to make hard choices.

The Museum must, like everybody, live within its means. The deterioration of the mockup was making it a hazard. It would have cost a fortune to make safe, and to make more representative of the real XCH-62 that was planned but never completed. The machine at the Museum was a mockup, remember, made from some aircraft parts and some Hollywood parts, of a concept that never flew.

With a collection of truly historic, once-flying aircraft that were outdoors, crying out for preservation, something had to give. The curators were unanimous: preserve real history, not a visually striking mock-up. The Army Center for Military History concurred.

The XCH-62 was a powerful sight, unique, and in a way, historic; but its claims lose out compared to some of the other aircraft the museum has to preserve. I suppose I'm one of the unrealistic purists, for I truly hated to see it go; but there's a lot more to the story than first meets the eye.

FMI: www.armyavnmuseum.org



-- Edited by Stingray on Friday 3rd of April 2020 06:52:04 PM

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That does put a lot into perspective. Demolishing a hollow representation of an aircraft that's falling into disrepair seems like a smarter alternative to rich restoration costs just to keep it from collapsing and conking someone on the head! Still wish there were facilities that would have taken it off their hands, as it's still a notable piece of history. Thanks for the informative read!



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Fort Rucker 1979 the museum was 4 hangars and a lot of outdoor storage - XV 3 - Russian and every Army helicopter tested [almost]

the class room hangar was next door -

If you follow the railroad tracks out the north gate and you'll find a farmers field full of aircraft....(are they still there today?)

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hillberg wrote:

If you follow the railroad tracks out the north gate and you'll find a farmers field full of aircraft....(are they still there today?)


 Ray (rotorwash) would know since he works as an archivist for Rucker's USAAM and takes snaps of the goodies they have there. Does he still come here? (I know he hasn't logged in in years but maybe he still browses as a guest?)



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I contacted him about the possibility of returning via Facebook when I re-opened the site. He said he'd look into it, but haven't heard from him since. I'd say give him some time, as he seems pretty busy.



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RE: Boeing-Vertol Model 301 / XCH-62 (HLH)
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Topic renamed with more accurate designations.



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Pepper wrote:
hillberg wrote:

If you follow the railroad tracks out the north gate and you'll find a farmers field full of aircraft....(are they still there today?)


 Ray (rotorwash) would know since he works as an archivist for Rucker's USAAM and takes snaps of the goodies they have there. Does he still come here? (I know he hasn't logged in in years but maybe he still browses as a guest?)


 I do know there is a local guy in Daleville with lots of Huey parts but none belong to the Army.  As for the US Army Aviation Museum, you should all be happy to hear that ground was just broken on a 190,000 sq ft building which will house most of the prototype and experimental aircraft.  Also, in the intervening years since this thread started, three large hangars have been built and very little of the collection is now outdoors.  also, the new director, Bob Mitchell, has been moving at a rapid rate to refurbish as many aircraft as possible.  In fact, i was just there for the unveiling of a restored AH-56A, CL-475, XH-51 compound, and another XH-51.  This includes all the aircraft types in Lockheed's rigid rotor family.  They also pulled out the P-51 chase plane for the Cheyenne program.  Here's the family photo I took.  Keep in mind, all are safely stored indoors but just taken out for the photo.  The Bell YAH-63 is next up for restoration.

   Ray

ADMIN EDIT: text area stretched too far, so replaced hotlinked image with a link to the high-res copy and attached a downsized preview. I guess the high-res attachment thing yesterday was a fluke.

https://scontent.ftpf1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89844626_10157954136134098_3214621882472988672_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=upvaQZHwC5IAX_YQld9&_nc_ht=scontent.ftpf1-1.fna&oh=3947e17b459833cb5bca48f5112f9a52&oe=5EB8A3BB


-- Edited by rotorwash on Saturday 11th of April 2020 07:36:59 PM



-- Edited by Stingray on Saturday 11th of April 2020 08:02:11 PM

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Love that picture, I remember you posting it on Facebook! So glad you shared it here (though I apologize to put you through my forum software's crappy limitations again in doing so... I'm making plans to upgrade, I just don't know when).



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This should give some idea of the size of the HLH mockup.  This is how the HLH was moved the the US Army Aviation Museum, by the way.  Army Aviation Museum archive photos.

   Ray

Let me know if these are still too big, Singray,

Picture 1

Picture 2:

bkEjCgn28O_Td-62JAPBEOjC58lBSSt95EwQ1Rl5



-- Edited by rotorwash on Saturday 11th of April 2020 08:11:24 PM



-- Edited by Stingray on Saturday 11th of April 2020 08:16:47 PM

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My favorite place - I need to see that place once more

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rotorwash wrote:

Let me know if these are still too big, Singray,


 

Only the top one was (edited accordingly).

I'm so confused... high-res attachments are uploading again! WTF is wrong with my forum software?! I can't wait to upgrade someday.

Anyway, thanks for those! I always appreciate your contributions, even when ActiveBoard doesn't express it as well as I do, LOL.



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rotorwash wrote:
also, the new director, Bob Mitchell, has been moving at a rapid rate to refurbish as many aircraft as possible.  In fact, i was just there for the unveiling of a restored AH-56A, CL-475, XH-51 compound, and another XH-51.  This includes all the aircraft types in Lockheed's rigid rotor family.  They also pulled out the P-51 chase plane for the Cheyenne program.  Here's the family photo I took.  Keep in mind, all are safely stored indoors but just taken out for the photo.  The Bell YAH-63 is next up for restoration.

   Ray

ADMIN EDIT: text area stretched too far, so replaced hotlinked image with a link to the high-res copy and attached a downsized preview. I guess the high-res attachment thing yesterday was a fluke.

https://scontent.ftpf1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89844626_10157954136134098_3214621882472988672_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=upvaQZHwC5IAX_YQld9&_nc_ht=scontent.ftpf1-1.fna&oh=3947e17b459833cb5bca48f5112f9a52&oe=5EB8A3BB


 Great news and epic picture! they look like high quality scale models from that angle lol



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It looks like at least some of it was preserved. The three landing struts are on display at the British Helicopter Museum:

http://helimuseum.com/heli.php?ident=xch62



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Stingray wrote:

It looks like at least some of it was preserved. The three landing struts are on display at the British Helicopter Museum:

http://helimuseum.com/heli.php?ident=xch62


 Interesting.  Thanks.

   Ray



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Hi everyone, I found this picture in Instagram by heli_jet.46078279_364567610971516_8442873862518395998_n.jpg



-- Edited by KQstardust on Wednesday 13th of May 2020 10:20:37 PM

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These are also from Instagram, posted by sergeant_of_yulin_guard.

65957447_426364371425223_2184995563578465930_n.jpg

65573186_483966265746823_7258077565271549997_n.jpg



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