Cierva

hannetonIII · Veteran Member - Level 2

Cierva

Gunship · Veteran Member - Level 3

hannetonIII wrote:
Cierva R1.
http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?threadid=1704&sid=2981484ea0d9e4e776930f57977ec2e0

You sure this one is legit? I've never heard of or seen a Cierva like this.

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

I think the answer lies in the fact that the site that the R-1 drawing comes from is a fantasy one. Looks very like a kamov design to me. smile

Gunship · Veteran Member - Level 3

The C.24 built by de Havilland in 1931, using a Cierva rotor head coupled to the cabin of a de Havilland DH.80A Puss Moth, and driven by a 120hp Gipsy III engine.

Stargazer2006 · Former Deputy Administrator

Ross wrote:
I think the answer lies in the fact that the site that the R-1 drawing comes from is a fantasy one. Looks very like a kamov design to me.

True, but please notice that most photos on that page depict real-life aircraft. If you look at the picture file's name, it says "Cierva C.29" and that's exactly what it depicts.

I'm still wondering what the would-be "Cierva R1" is supposed to depict, though, if anything at all.

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

Stargazer2006 wrote:

True, but please notice that most photos on that page depict real-life aircraft.

I totally agree, the fact that this site mixes fact and fiction has given me grief in the past when I've thought that I've found a new type. I didn't dimiss the R-1 right away, had to stop and think about it.

-- Edited by Ross on Saturday 8th of October 2011 05:48:58 PM

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

Cierva W.9 with fully enclosed fuselage.

From British Military Helicopters. John Everett-Heath, Arms & Armour Press 1986.

Stingray · Administrator

Found this interesting Cierva in my archives, but I can't identify it. Help?

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

Stingray wrote:
Found this interesting Cierva in my archives, but I can't identify it. Help?

It looks like it maybe an early type of Gyrodyne design. The kind of design that J.A.J Bennet was working on at Cierva just before the second world war, and later developed when he went to Fairey, but I've never seen anything like it before.

Stingray · Administrator

Made this crude profile drawing of the C.24 last night, for a member at SPF:

I hand-drew it in my tent, so my hands were shaky from the cold. Then I digitally processed it. I hope the detailing is accurate.

Stargazer2006 · Former Deputy Administrator

Very nice effort, Travis!!

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

Ross wrote:
Stingray wrote:
Found this interesting Cierva in my archives, but I can't identify it. Help?
It looks like it maybe an early type of Gyrodyne design.

I stand corrected, it's not a Gyrodyne design. When enlarged you can see that the propellor is on the nose not a stub wing as I first thought. So I'm still none the wiser.

Stargazer2006 · Former Deputy Administrator

I have the exact same picture (in much better quality) as a product of the Autogiro Co. of America—in other words: Pitcairn.

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

Many thanks Stargazer2006, thats much clearer.

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

As I mentioned above, the Fairey Gyrodyne design originated in a proposal that Dr J.A.J.Bennett put forward for the Cierva Company to meet the specification S.22/38 for a naval rotary-wing spotter/reconnaissance aircraft.

The two images are from U.S patent 2317340 and show what is probably the basic layout of the Cierva C.41 design. They show subtle differences.

The full patent can be found here. http://www.google.com/patents?id=Ic5GAAAAEBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=2317340&hl=en&ei=E9yRTr7tA5K68gO-_8gR&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

3 view drawing of the W.11 Air Horse, showing the modified and extended fins on the tailplane. From Jane's All The Worlds Aircraft 1950-51.

Stingray · Administrator

The C.10, before and after the crash:

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

The model of the projected twin engined version of the Air Horse, the W.11T, first shown at Farnborough in 1949, still exists at the Helicopter Museum in Weston Super Mare.

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

The "Spraying Mantiss" as it appears in U.S Patent 2529629.

Stargazer2006 · Former Deputy Administrator

Nice find, Ross. Thanks!

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

Just after the war, Cierva were also investigating the use of rotor tip jet drive for helicopters.

From U.S Patent 2673696.

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

What would appear to be the last projected Air Horse development, before Cierva stopped work. Of special interest is the folding rotor system, which implies a Naval application. Perhaps a potential competitor to Bristol's Type 191 or designed for on-board delivery.

From U.S Patent 2623711.

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

Variations on the Cierva W.9 theme.

The first image from U.S Patent 2503172, shows the version with Jet Reaction control. The system used by the W.9. (Compare with photo at start of this thread).

The second from U.S Patent 2440225, shows a version with a tailplane.

The third and fourth from U.S Patent 2613748, show a version with a curious fan arrangement.

Ross · Veteran Member - Level 1

Another Jet Driven Rotor concept from Cierva. From U.S Patent 2703624. Very curious rotor shape.

Stingray · Administrator

hannetonIII wrote:
Cierva R1.
http://wesworld.jk-clan.de/thread.php?threadid=1704&sid=2981484ea0d9e4e776930f57977ec2e0

That's the Kamov Ka-18!!!

Never trust that site as a source for anything.

hesham · Veteran Member - Level 3

Ross wrote:
As I mentioned above, the Fairey Gyrodyne design originated in a proposal that Dr J.A.J.Bennett put forward for the Cierva Company to meet the specification S.22/38 for a naval rotary-wing spotter/reconnaissance aircraft.
The two images are from U.S patent 2317340 and show what is probably the basic layout of the Cierva C.41 design. They show subtle differences.
The full patent can be found here. http://www.google.com/patents?id=Ic5GAAAAEBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=2317340&hl=en&ei=E9yRTr7tA5K68gO-_8gR&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA

May be your was right Ross,

that is because,the C.41 was a four-seat autogyro project.

hesham · Veteran Member - Level 3

From TU 243,

the CL-11 was developed from CL-10,powered by one 100 hp Renault 7B engine,remained a Project.

KQstardust · Veteran Member - Level 1

Am I correct to assume that the Cierva-Shorts C.14 gyro was a flying boat type like the C.13 or was it a completely different project? I'm fact-checking against vague Google results.

hesham · Veteran Member - Level 3

Hi,

looks like this;

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1935/1935%20-%200631.html

Stingray · Administrator

KQstardust wrote:
Am I correct to assume that the Cierva-Shorts C.14 gyro was a flying boat type like the C.13 or was it a completely different project? I'm fact-checking against vague Google results.

Stéphane made it pretty clear in the designations topic that no details have survived to indicate exactly what the C.14, C.15, and C.16 projects actually were, so assuming any relation with Shorts or development around the C.13 is pure speculation that is likely to never be proven. Such as it is with designs forever lost to history.