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Post Info TOPIC: Rare photograph -- need help identifying helicopter, location and date.


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Date: May 27, 2015
Rare photograph -- need help identifying helicopter, location and date.
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Hello,

This unusual photo found in my father's (Hal Hermes) collection of helicopter photos, but with no notes or other information. Hal Hermes was a USAAF test pilot at Wright Field during the war (soloed June 1943) and a CAA/FAA test pilot from 1946-1976. DRAFT wiki here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rhhermes/sandbox

It looks like an early version Bell 47, which Hal Hermes had type certification duties on (the first CAA helicopter certification).

Knowing that DDT spraying was used for malaria control, that could be a sprayer unit on the side of the helicopter.

Anyone know anything about this photo?

Lots more rare photos to post if anyone is interested...

rhhermes



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Date: May 27, 2015
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Hello and welcome!

I wouldn't know the history behind the photo, but I'm familiar with the helicopter type. The Model 47B-3 was built as a specialized agricultural variant of the 47 series that became commercially available in 1948, notable for its open crew positions. The spraying unit consisted of containers that could be fitted on both sides each with a capacity of 180kg. The variant was also offered as a general utility version, which saw use with the US Postal Service and geographical survey in Canada.

Thanks for sharing. I'm going to try and find out more about this. And yes, please, we would be very interested in more rare stuff! Thanks again.



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Member

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Date: May 27, 2015
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Thank you very much.  Just a few minutes ago, a very helpful Bell person supplied the same info along with registration number and that it was 1 of 10 Bell 47 B-3 helicopters sold to an Argentinian group.  She pulled that together in hours...I was pretty impressed.  Good info on the sprayer...

I will post more soon...



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Date: May 27, 2015
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Interesting. I recall the type being used around 1950 in Sardinia for the same purpose, but in Argentina to control the locust population migrating from Brazil. I suppose malaria control of that region wasn't too far off from that particular timeframe. I think it stopped in the early 60s.



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You seem to be right about Sardinia, I have seen some info on that.

Thanks for info.


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Any help on this helicopter? -- looks like a Bell 47 experimental ....but then I am new to this.



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Member

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Date: May 28, 2015
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This is a Goodyear "Rubber Fighter" sent to Hal Hermes by Dick Ulm in 1947. 

 

Also called an "Inflat-O-Plane"

500# Gross Weight

44HP Nelson Engine

First Flight Jan 10, 1957

In separate note, Dick Ulm says he has made over 60 flights...and that "at 400 ft in this you feel real bold"

Hope ya'll enjoy this...



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rhhermes wrote:

Any help on this helicopter? -- looks like a Bell 47 experimental ....but then I am new to this.


 Bell 47H-1... it was basically a modified Bell 47G introduced in 1955 with a soundproofed cabin and two seats for passengers. The cabin had to be widened to accommodate the seats since they were a larger type common in cars at the time. Most of the interior had leather upholstery. The tail also contained a baggage compartment. It saw production but wsn't a commercially successful machine - only about 30 were built.



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To be a bit more specific, there were reportedly 33 total built. It was a three-seater powered by a 200hp Franklin 6V4-200-C32 six-cylinder piston engine.



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Thank you for the info on the Bell 47H-1. I think it is a beautiful helicopter, great upscale styling and fittings. My father never flew one, at least according to his flight logs.

Talking about styling helicopters, Hal Hermes did test this art deco looking craft, but wrote a negative report, so I do not think it ever received FAA certification.



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Fantastic photo! This is the McCulloch MC-4. A little history:

In 1947, D.K. Jovanovich and F. Kozloski of the Helicopter Engineering and Research Corporation developed a small two-seat, tandem rotor helicopter called the Jov-3, powered by a 100hp Franklin engine. It successfully flew in 1948.

In 1949 they transferred to the McCulloch Motors Corporation helicopter division and developed a slightly larger design based on the Jov-3 for military use, which would be known as the MC-4. The first prototype flew in March 1951 with a 165hp Franklin 6V4-165-832 engine. Five examples were built: First prototype MC-4 (N4070K), second prototype MC-4C (N4071K), and three other prototypes (52-5837 to '39) designated YH-30 for US Army evaluation. These latter designs were slightly larger with 200hp Franklin engines. The MC-4C was also evaluated by the Navy as the HUM-1.

The MC-4 became the first tandem-rotor helicopter to be certificated by the U.S. Civil Aeronautics Administration for commercial use in 17 February 1953, but it didn't attract any customers and the military showed no interest in the YH-30s. It was determined that the machines had underpowered engines and the drive systems were too complex, so the three military prototypes were disposed of in 1953.

Jovanovich would later start his own Jovair Corporation in 1957 and continue work on the design, using the MC-4C as the baseline prototype for a new series of designs that would be developed as the four-seat Jovair Sedan 4E, Sedan 4ES, and the agricultural Sedan 4A with exposed crew positions. The Sedan 4E received type approval from the FAA in March 1963.

The design rights were later returned to McColluch in the 1970s, who continued development of Sedan 4E as the McCulloch MC-4E. I haven't read anything about production, so I assume it suffered the same fate as the previous designs.



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Pictures:

1.) HERC Jov-3

2-4.) McCulloch MC-4 prototype

5-6.) YH-30

7.) HUM-1 (AKA: XHUM-1)

8.) Jovair Sedan 4E and the Sedan 4A in the background



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YH-30 during factory tests before being transferred to the Army:



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Date: May 29, 2015
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Stingray wrote:

Jov-3, powered by a 100hp Franklin engine.


 Are you sure? Other sources say it was a Lycoming O-290.



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Great photos and thank you for all the info. The photo with Al Bayer's signature has hung on my wall for years -- mainly because I think it is a beautiful aircraft. The engine info is interesting, I always assumed that a McCulloch engine would be used, since that is what they were good at. Did not McCulloch Motors manufacture aircraft engines during WW@?



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Their engines were mostly little two-strokes that were used for target drones and autogyros. They also made kart and boat engines. The MC-4 and Sedans required somethimng of a bit higher calibre and considering not even what they had were powerful enough said alot about what these machines really needed in contrast to what MC were known for manufacturing. Either way it was cheaper to use other available engines. :P

I think some of the drone engines saw service in WW2 but more work was done after the war. This is of course before they were mostly a chainsaw company.



-- Edited by Leela25 on Friday 29th of May 2015 09:27:12 PM



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I actually never knew it was the same McCulloch that made chainsaws. I remember once visiting my Dad in Redding, he was taking his old chainsaw to a repair shop and on display were a bunch of McCulloch chainsaws. I remember thinking "Huh, there's also a McCulloch that made a few helicopters." And I shrugged it off thinking it was a coincidence.

I'm surprised I didn't look it up when we got home, which I usually do in such situations, but somehow I remained ignorant until now. Thanks Leela.



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Lolz, time to take a break from the Soviet aviation Stingy. x3



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I *am* Soviet aviation...



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Date: Jun 5, 2015
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Can anyone help me identify this aircraft?

That is Hal Hermes, 2nd from left.

Thank



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Date: Jun 5, 2015
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Boeing B-47

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Many thanks.

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Date: Jun 8, 2015
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Well I finally got some more information on that first photograph I posted.

A nice lady at Bell, did a search for me and found that no Bell 47B-3's were ever sold into Brazil, but that the helicopter in the photo was registered in Argentina.

I posted the photo at Helis.com (Facebook) and got this information.

wow, really old!, appears to be a Brazilian state Joinville governement image, where did you get it ?

The Bell 47B-3 LV-AEJ was from the Argentine Health ministry and the picture being in Brazil in a kind of evacuation of Saigon event,

I will try to find more, thanks for sharing!

With the city name, Joinville, Brazil, I did google searches in Portuguese and found another shot of the same helicopter that seems to be the same day

http://forum.contatoradar.com.br/index.php/topic/75213-joinville-em-meados-do-seculo-20/(scroll down a bit).

Translated: On February 14, 1949, a helicopter lands on the old Post Office building in Nereus Ramos square in the city center, in what is now a division of the city hall.

Who interested, the full size pictures are available on Flickr Aero Club de Joinville:

 http: //www.flickr.co...lubedejoinville

I also found an old photo of a similar Bell 47B spraying DDT in Buffalo around 1948.  Since DDT was at one time used to fight malaria in Brazil, I am still quite convinced they were using this Bell to spray DDT.

Thank you all for all your help on this.

 



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Quick question, I read somewhere once that the 47H-1 was the basis for the later 47J Ranger. Can anyone clarify this or confirm? Thanks. Kind regards, Jeremy

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Stingray wrote:

I *am* Soviet aviation...


 LMAO!!!!! biggrinbiggrinbiggrin



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Stingray wrote:

I *am* Soviet aviation...


 I have no difficulty believing that.

 

jrbirdman wrote:

Quick question, I read somewhere once that the 47H-1 was the basis for the later 47J Ranger. Can anyone clarify this or confirm? Thanks. Kind regards, Jeremy


 It was based on the commercal applications that the 47H-1 was designed for, but was based more closely on the 47G-1 prototype in 1954. They both have similar co.ckpit designs (three-seat capacity and bubble canopy).



-- Edited by retroistic on Wednesday 10th of June 2015 03:42:57 PM

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Ah okay thanks for clearing that up for me. The Ranger and G-1 had the same swashplate and mast right?



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