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Member

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Date: Jun 15, 2010
Cierva
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Cierva C.1

Cierva C.2

Cierva C.3

Cierva C.4

Cierva C.6

Cierva C.8

Cierva C.17

Cierva C.19

Cierva C.24

Cierva C.30

Cierva C.40

Cierva W.9

Cierva W.11

Cierva W.11T

Cierva W.12

Cierva Rotorcraft CR.LTH-1 "Grasshopper"



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Date: Jul 23, 2011
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Hi Ashley that is not all. ^_^

 

Cierva C.5, Cierva C.6D, Cierva C.7, Cierva C.8V and C.8W, Cierva C.9, the four C.19s and the three C.30s AND Cierva C.34 are all missing from your list. cry



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There are actually a lot more designations in the list, and I can fill in many of the gaps... Just give me time and we'll have a neat Cierva list in this page!



-- Edited by Stargazer2006 on Sunday 24th of July 2011 01:23:41 AM

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Stéphane



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Date: Jul 31, 2011
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Just a heads up, the W.8 is missing as well. Not to be confused with the C.8 models.



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I've been patiently building up a list of all Cierva designs and it's almost complete. Give me a couple more days folks and you'll see it in this page!



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Stéphane



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Commander31 wrote:

Just a heads up, the W.8 is missing as well. Not to be confused with the C.8 models.


 

For W.7 and W.8,please see;

 

http://stingraysrotorforum.activeboard.com/t38340705/cierva/



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hesham


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Hesham, for the second time, the W.7 is not a Cierva! It's a Weir project.



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Sheesh Ace, they're basically from the same designer. James G. Weir helped Cierva establish the Cierva Autogyro Company when he moved to England in 1925. Do some reading at Wikipedia before jumping to conclusions.



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Alan Dallas


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Although Weir and Cierva were different companies before the war, Weir became Cierva after the war.

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Stéphane



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Date: Aug 22, 2011
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Stargazer2006 wrote:

I've been patiently building up a list of all Cierva designs and it's almost complete. Give me a couple more days folks and you'll see it in this page!


 

Can't wait to see it!



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Hi,

some Cierva projects;

C.14 was a flying boat Autogyro for the 31/26 Spec.,and the Shorts Brother

who was developed it.

C.31 was a project of 1934 for a two-seat coupe autogyro with

retractable landing gear and powered by one 385hp Napier Rapier
IV engine.

C.32 was similar to C.31 but powered by one 200 hp De Havilland
DH Gipsy Six engine.

C.33 (Avro-665) was an Avro project ,envisaged the combination
of a four-seat Commodore biplane with a three-blade rotor,powered
by one 240 hp Armstrong Siddeley Lynx IVC engine.

C.37 was a twin-engined cabin autogyro,proposed by Avro as the
Type-668.

C.39 was a project for 2/3 seat fleet spotter autogyro to Spec.
22/38,this would have had a three-blade rotor and 600 hp Rolls-
Royce kestrel engine.



-- Edited by hesham on Tuesday 23rd of August 2011 12:30:30 AM

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hesham


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hesham, I'm afraid the C.14 designation is inaccurate. The Shorts 31/26 was the C.13.
No details have survived as to what projects C.14 to C.16 actually were.

I still have to finish my Cierva list, but here are some additions already:


BCD-1* 'El Cangrejo' two-seat biplane (* Barcala, Cierva & Diaz)
BCD-2* small racing tractor monoplane (* Barcala, Cierva & Diaz)
C-3 (large biplane)

C.1 Autogiro N°1
C.2 Autogiro N°2
C.3 Autogiro N°3
C.4 Autogiro N°4
C.5 —
C.6 —
C.6A (C.6bis)
C.6B —
C.6C (Avro Type 574)
C.6D (Avro Type 575)
C.7 (Loring C.VII)
C.8V (Avro Type 586)
C.8R (Avro Type 587)
C.8L-I (Avro Type 611)
C.8L-II (Avro Type 617)
C.8L-III (Avro Type 617)
C.8W (C.8 Mark IV)
C.9 (Avro Type 576*)
C.10 (Parnall 4/26)
C.11 (Parnall 'Gyroplane')
C.12 (Loring C.XII)
C.13 (Short 31/26)
C.14 —
C.15 —
C.16 —
C.17 Mk. I (Avro Type 612)
C.17 Mk. II (Avro Type 620)
C.17 Hydr. (Avro Type 620)
C.18
C.19 Mk. I
C.19 Mk. II
C.19 Mk. IIA
C.19 Mk. III
C.19 Mk. IVP
C.19 Mk. IV
C.19 Mk. V
C.19 (Focke-Wulf C.19 'Don Quichote')
C.20
C.21
C.22
C.23
C.24 (De Havilland C.24)
C.25 (Comper G.31/1)
C.26
C.27 (Cierva-Lepère C.L. 10)
C.28 (Weir W.1)
C.29 (Westland C.29)
C.30
C.30P
C.30A
C.30A (Avro Type 671 'Rota I') (A.39/34?; ordered under Spec. 16/35 and 2/36)
C.30A (Avro Type 671 'Rota II')
C.30A (Avro Type 671 'Rota seaplane')
C.30 (Focke-Wulf C.30 'Heuschrecke')
C.30 (Lioré-et-Olivier LeO C.30)
C.30 (SNCASE C.301)
C.30 (SNCASE C.302)
C.30 Mk. II
C.30 Mk. III
C.30 Mk. IV
C.30 Mk. V
C.30J
C.31 (1) (Cierva-Lepère C.L. 20)
C.31 (2)
C.32
C.33 (Avro Type 665)
C.34 (Lioré-et-Olivier > SNCASE C.34)
C.35
C.36
C.37 (Avro Type 668)
C.38
C.39 (S.22/38)
C.40 (Bradbury & Cull/British Aircraft Mfg. Co.) (43/36)
C.41 (S.22/38)



-- Edited by Stargazer2006 on Monday 22nd of August 2011 11:32:35 PM

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Stéphane



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Date: Aug 22, 2011
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Stargazer2006 wrote:

hesham, I'm afraid the C.14 designation is inaccurate. The Shorts 31/26 was the C.13.
No details have survived as to what projects C.14 to C.16 actually were.

-- Edited by Stargazer2006 on Monday 22nd of August 2011 11:32:35 PM


 I am sure from my source,

it is correct,and the source is A-Z magazine.



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hesham


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Date: Aug 23, 2011
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Your source made a mistake. This happens often! I have other sources that are more reliable on Cierva (notably the book "The Cierva Autogiro"), and they give C.13 as the designation!



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Stéphane



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From Stephane, the "W" list:

 

W.1 Cierva C.28 with custom-manufactured Douglas-Dryad engine (1933)
W.2 Cierva C.28 with Weir O-92 Dryad II flat two-cylinder, horizontally-opposed, air-cooled engine, and drive to spin rotor before take-off (1934)
W.3 single-seater powered by an inverted 4-cylinder in-line engine and fitted with a two-bladed 'auto-dynamic' rotor (1936)
W.4 single-rotor autogiro, a more elegantly finished version of the earlier W.3 design with a 50 hp engine (1937)
W.5 single-seat helicopter powered by an air-cooled engine; two two-bladed rotors each had cyclic and collective pitch control and turned at 430 r.p.m (1938)
W.6 two-seater helicopter built under 28/38 and powered by a more powerful fan-cooled engine located in the nose (1939)
W.7 helicopter project to S.22/38 specification in which the offset airscrew gives propulsion and a very "cushy" clutch effect for starting the rotor
W.8 helicopter project with folding rotor and two propellers in pusher position, one permanently coupled to the transmission and one having a clutch
W.9 experimental helicopter to E.16/43 specification with a three-blade main rotor (1944)
W.10 project for a 4/5-seat single-engine helicopter
W.11 Air Horse, very large helicopter with single Rolls-Royce Merlin 24 engine driving three large three-blade rotors; second example ordered to E.19/46 (1948)
W.11 Spraying Mantis, agricultural spraying version developed with Pest Control, Ltd., project only
W.11T project for an enlarged W.11 with two 1208kW Rolls-Royce Merlin 502 engines (1948)
W.12 projected smaller freighter development of W.11 with Rolls-Royce Dart turboprops and a payload of 1½ tons or 12 passengers
W.13 not assigned
W.14 Skeeter, became the Saro Skeeter, built by Saunders-Roe Ltd. (1948)



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A more in-depth "W"-list can now be found here in the Weir-specific designations thread:

http://stingraysrotorforum.activeboard.com/t60659781/weir-rotorcraft-designations/



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Commander31 wrote:

Hesham, for the second time, the W.7 is not a Cierva! It's a Weir project.


 

Gunship wrote:

Sheesh Ace, they're basically from the same designer. James G. Weir helped Cierva establish the Cierva Autogyro Company when he moved to England in 1925. Do some reading at Wikipedia before jumping to conclusions.


 

 

As Stephane has stated that Weir and Cierva were different companies before WWII (Weir became "Cierva-Weir" in 1943), the chronology for Weir designations to be included in the Cierva list should actually begin with the W.9.

So Ace was technically correct about the W.7, though also incorrect for including the W.8.



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Date: Aug 7, 2015
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But what source do you have to support that it should begin with the W.9? I can't find an exact date for the W.7 or W.8 models so it might actually begin with those. Also if we are going to be so specific on chronology in regards to Cierva's involvment then why does the Weir list continue with Skeeter derivatives after being acquired by Saro?



-- Edited by Leela25 on Friday 7th of August 2015 09:37:17 PM

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The W-7, as well as the parallel Cierva gyrodyne, is described in a 1945 issue of Flight with respective 1938-1939 timeframes. The Matthew R.H. Uttley book "Westland and the British Helicopter Industry, 1945-1960" also gives the same general timeframe.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1946/1946%20-%201154.html

https://books.google.com/books?id=oNWhAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA22&dq=cierva+weir+w-7&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC0Q6AEwBGoVChMI6Z2LkYyaxwIVUJSICh3fmA1b#v=onepa
ge&q=cierva%20weir%20w-7&f=false

The Peter W. Brooks book "Cierva Autogiros: The Development of Rotary-Wing Flight" and Verti-flite Volume 48/49 both give the W-8 a 1943 development date, however still mentioned specifically as a Weir development which probably means it was developed earlier in the year, before the company became Cierva-Weir.

https://books.google.com/books?id=i7MWAAAAYAAJ&q=%22weir+w-8%22&dq=%22weir+w
-8%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAmoVChMIndnw94yaxwIVAjCICh3qqQFM

However, I am open to the possibility of my sources being wrong, as well as my assessment of the data presented. Any solid corrections would be greatly appreciated.

What I do know for certain is that the W-9 project spanned about 1944-1946, making it a safe starting point for inclusion in Cierva's designation system.

 

Leela25 wrote:

Also if we are going to be so specific on chronology in regards to Cierva's involvment then why does the Weir list continue with Skeeter derivatives after being acquired by Saro?


 

Indeed you've caught me on a small hypocrisy. I did this for the sake of completion and because we don't have a specific Saro designations thread yet.



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I noticed something while reading throug this thread. Why are the W prefixes constantly changing from having hyphens to periods between them and the numbers? Which is the correct styling?



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Date: Aug 12, 2015
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There is no official styling, as both have been used by many different sources (as well as just blank spaces, like most German designations). The period between most prefixes and numbers are usually to replace spaces, but this seems to be a more common practice with Cierva. The safest option for me, personally, was to use hyphens when building the Weir list. However, in all logic, periods would be equally appropriate.

Long answer short: whatever YOU think is proper.



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Date: Aug 13, 2015
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Since Cierva used periods I'd say with the close relations between the two companies even before acquisition of Weir that both of them used periods.



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